Saturday, April 5, 2008

Buyer Beware: Plimus ecommerce SUCKS

Edit: Updated - Please see the bottom of the post.

Wow, I'm really truly stunned that this is for real...and it's 2008 on the Internet and I actually have to deal with this sort of bullshit...

Anyway, last night I made an electronic purchase. The person was using 'Plimus' as their outsourced ecommerce provider. I had never heard of Plimus before (I've used Share*It and a few other 'familiar' ones in the past, but never Plimus...), and was a little worried, so I put the sale on pause and went on a search for a bit of info about Plimus.

Well, the search temporarily put my concerns at ease - looks like they were a large, professional, established US-based ecommerce company. And along with creditcard numbers, can process with PayPal accounts. "No problem" I thought.

So I went ahead and made my purchase. Filled out all the forms. Used my home address and contact info, used my PayPal account.

PayPal went through no problem. I go to check my email, and I see this:


Thank you for your recent order for XXXXXXXX. In order to approve this order we must contact you via telephone. Due to the current time and as a token of respect to your household we do not wish to call you at this time without your permission.

Please visit the following link and provide us with the phone number and best time when we can reach you, so we can process your order:

Your phone number is always kept strictly confidential and will never be used for sales calls, it will only be used to verify this order.

Plimus Sales


Now this is concerning to me. Very much. Because of my job, I am very 'identity theft aware', and this was so out-of-the-blue, so unorthodox, all I could think is that they are trying to profile people for identity theft. There's no way in hell they need to verify my working telephone number (in addition to ALL the TONS of other info they needed to collect in order to allow me to order through them - actually through a PayPal passthrough payment, which makes it all even stranger).

I sat there, stunned for a while, absolutely ready to cancel my order and bitch the company out. I realized, the money was already gone from my PayPal account. I also realized I had never given any of my creditcard info to these shady Plimus people (THANK YOU PAYPAL!). And I really wanted the product (an anti-spam plugin for phpBB forums).

So I went to their stupid telephone form, and entered the number THAT I HAD ALREADY GIVEN THEM again, and seleted the "call anytime" box.

13 hours later they called. A grumpy sounding person asked if I had ordered the product. I said I did. He said "OK, You'll have email confirmation in a few minutes" and hung up.

A few minutes later - I had email confirmation, BUT - confirmation that the product developer had now been notified of my purchase, and would respond within 48 hours.

It's now been 24 hours since the purchase, 11 hours since the callback. No sign of the developer or the product I purchased.

I'm absolutely steaming. If this was a downloable game I had wanted to play on Friday night, I would have been twice as pissed (Plimus is used a lot by the indie game dev commuinity - see this related thread ).

I have absolutley NO IDEA what could have caused Plimus to think my sale was 'high risk' or whatever. I used my primary 'family' email address at a major ISP (not a Gmail account), I gave all my personal information - this is just outrageous that they need all this info PLUS verify a working phone just to take a passthrough payment from PayPal. Totally unacceptable to me. Like, TOTALLY, TOTALLY, WRITE UP A GOOGLE-SEARCHABLE BLOG ENTRY UNACCEPTABLE.

Anyway, I'm putting this out to you guys as a warning, because I know that like me you probably make a lot of online purchases. I will not purchase anything that uses Plimus as a checkout provider ever again. Not a chance in hell. I'll find something else or go without. This is absolutely unacceptable to me. A fucking PHONE CALL? 13 HOURS LATER? WTF? Sorry guys, you lose. That's totally, totally bullshit.



Update: Well, the developer got in touch with me, about 24 hours after the inital purchase was initiated. Actually considering the time/geography difference, and Plimus' 13 hour pre-call wait, it was a very fast response from the developer.

The developer was very apologetic about the whole thing, and I want to be clear I hold none of this against the devs or the companies that have chosen Plimus as a source of payment & customer frustration - they have my sympathy. Also the dev told me that the 48 hour thing was bullshit as well - there should have been an automatic email of the license to me AS SOON as Plimus had verified the order. This never happened, and the developer had the grace and forsight to email me a copy of the license from his personal Gmail account, just in case I hadn't received it 'automatically' (which obviously I didn't). What a disaster.

Anyway, nice thing about the small and indie devs is the level of care for the customer, too bad they get caught up in the crap policies of the big internet companies they often have to partner with.


Anonymous said...

i remember the one time i almost bought something from someone who used Plimus i got creeped out by it and decided i didn't want whatever that was any way.

Ed S. said...

I'm having a similar situation as I type this. Just paid for an indie game, which I expected to be playing within minutes. It's been nearly an hour and no call from Plimus. I used PayPal, specifically so I could avoid any big hassle. Learned my lesson.

Plimus is inefficient and ridiculously slow at processing orders. Please, people, don't use Plimus as your ordering system.

Stephen Munday said...

I have had a similar issue with Plimus:

I live in Japan and used a UK credit card through PayPal to try to make payment. I guess the fact that my address in the UK was different to my Japanese phone number and IP made them flag it. Anyway, they said they needed to call me and I entered my phone number immediately. The thing is they never called, and I never heard anything from PayPal about a problem with the payment.

I got my product and was using it for 3 weeks thinking all was fine, at which point I got an email from the developer saying my purchase was fraudulent (Plimus' words, which he was just parroting) and that the product would be deactivated within 24 hours. The actual words on Plimus' site were that the card use was not authorized: Well, I made the payment online and would have quite happily talked to someone - if they had been bothered to call me - to verify my consent and identity.

I thought I would reorder it using my Japanese credit card, but I guess the first order had resulted in my email address, IP etc being marked as being "dubious", so it was "declined".

The email from Plimus said I should try again, so I then tried to do a phone order so that I could actually talk with someone. I explained the situation and how it was their failure to do a simple call back which had caused all this, but they stonewalled and refused to help. When I pointed out that that the last email from them was to tell me to try again, and this is what I was doing talking with them on the phone (internationally), they said they could not help me as it had to be dealt with by "accounts" (

I extracted an email address for accounts and have emailed them, and the vendor.

The thing is, I really need this product - it is a good product and I am quite happy to pay for it. My problems are that Plimus is totally hindering me in getting payment to the vendor. On top of this, my name has been blackened by them implying my transaction was somehow fraudulent (ah, the sin of ordering from a different country to where my credit card is registered). Furthermore, the Plimus staff person I spoke to did not seem to be interested in solving the issue, and spoke in a sarcastic tone.

Unless Plimus gets this sorted out so I can order again, my only choices will then be either to have a friend or relative order and for me to pay them back, or for me to pay the developer directly using my PayPal verified business account. The latter would be no risk to him (PayPal screens everything) and would allow him to pocket more money as Plimus would then not take their (substantial) slice of the pie.

For his sake and mine, I hope he can do the latter.

Muff Wiggler said...

Wow Stephen, that is just pure craziness!!! Unbelievable, makes my bad experience with them seem like nothing.

You actually sound very patient and cool about the whole thing - but it must be frustrating beyond words, that is absolutely outrageous, I never could imagine such problems.

Probably not worth sinking your cash into fighting, but if you had a lawyer friend it would be fun to draft a letter to them saying you will will engage a defamation of character lawsuit if they do not fix these problems for you.

I'm amazed....just madness, and the whole time you are only doing what they recommend you do....INSANE!

I am most certainly going to make sure to NEVER, EVER under any circumstances EVER make a payment for a product using Plimus again.

I'm doubly glad now I had the forsight to use a PayPal passthrough payment and keep my creditcard numbers away from these idiots. I'm sure you must feel the same way.

Thanks for posting this here, hopefully more and more people find this and will know to avoid these idiots.

Anonymous said...

I am a software developer and Plimus sucks for developers too. They somehow cut too many normal orders, but allow frauds anyway (in the same rate like their competition). That is truly sad! They always tell they are number one bla blah blah..

Anonymous said...

I ordered something almost 24 hours ago and am still waiting to hear from Plimus after they "randomly" chose me for phone verification. I could have given them any bullshit number I could answer; it doesn't verify anything. I'll check before I buy anything online again. This is shit.

Anonymous said...

Beware Baware
I recently went to aol auto and decided to purchase a car in NJ. I found a car and contact the seller by email since their was no contact number. Letting he or she know i was interested in the car. The seller responded back,"Sorry for the delay ,the price of the vehicle is bla bla.The vehicle is in very good condition ,never been damaged , no accidents, no repairs.
This vehicle was driven daily and the maintenance records are very good.
The vehicle is located right now in Canada with me and i am here due to loss of hearing.I am currently attending a treatment and i will stay here until i get some results.
If you are interested to purchase the vehicle email me back and i will explain you the payments and shipping process.
Thank you!." So i responded by teller the seller i was interested and what is the payment and shipping process. The seller reponded,"Thank you for e-mailing me back, well for payments i will use Plimus services because they will secure the transaction.So if you want to buy the vehicle then you need to send me your info Full Name, Full Address and your Phone number.Plimus will contact you with payment information and you will make a deposit to there account and in the same day when they will receive the confirmation of payment, i will ship the vehicle and give you the tracking number asap.I will pay the shipping and i will give you 10 days so you can inspect the vehicle.You can go with the vehicle to a mechanic ,dealer and drive the vehicle, make all the inspection that you want .After that 10 days you have 3 days to give me a response back if you will keep the vehicle or not , if you will keep the vehicle then you will send me the rest of the money and you will keep the vehicle, if not then the vehicle will be ship back( you will not pay the shipping back) and you will get your money back.The vehicle will come with the title, bill of sale , bill of lading, maintenance records , keys , manuals.So i will wait your info back if you want to purchase the vehicle." After i got the respond i call plimus and they said they don't handle car transactions and they don't recognize the seller's email address. Wow!

Adeel Shahid said...

wow, there are some number of comments here regarding Plimus.

Can any of you recommend something else other then plimus.

Anonymous said...

I've used them twice (the second time as we speak), the first time was a joke as it took 2-3 days to finally get the software I bought (after sending several emails to Plimus as well as the developer). I am currently waiting for the second thing I bought through them. I even contacted the developer before buying from Primus to ask if I could buy direct, they said they weren't set up to do that (I can understand) but I warned them that Plimus is probably pissing off a bunch of other potential customers to the point that they lose sales.

Anonymous said...

As a developer I switched from Plimus to which provides better services for vendors and customers. I just left the most expensive $199 Site License to be sold on Plimus, because they charge a smaller commission for bigger prices. BUT! They also charge $15 fine for a chargeback processing which is really criminal because that's their job to prevent chargebacks and vendor shouldn't pay for their poor security. So, just in recent month I had THREE chargebacks for $199 Site license which made me absolutely mad! Of course I was charged an additional $45 just for their processing faults! That were almost all Site licenses sold in a few recent months!
I canot understand why do they have so nasty security system which is bad for both customers and vendors and does not protect from threats overall.

- very dissatisfied Plimus' ex-vendor

Anonymous said...

Many consumers buy online for two reasons: First, they want products that they normally can't get offline. Second, they want discounts. Because of the current financial crisis, it is likely that many more consumers will go online to buy discounted items so it is likely that the demand for ecommerce software development would rise in the short run.

Anonymous said...

It just happened the same to me - they sent me an email, "thank you for your purchase" and they wanted to verify the order on the phone. THey have called me today and wanted all the credit card details including the CCS Code to be provided on the phone and I said no way. They had the credit card details and I was not ready to provide the credit card details on the phone. They hung up and decided to send me an email cancelling the order - Amazing!

Anonymous said...

Yes is a bullshit. It's a shit for software vedors also because you have to pay $15 chargeback fine for every chargeback, and Plimus would issue a chargeback for everyone who requested it without any thoughts. dirty bastards!

Anonymous said...

I am software developer and I used Plimus to sell my products. recently I have found one chinese developer created a 100% clone of my product and stole my design, images and texts. He also sells it via Plimus.
So I've sent a complaint to Plimus and they replied just in a few words that "it's not their business"


they are crooks and they often cover fraudulent sellers who add a hidden subscription to your credit card and it's impossible to request a refund. I know that because I worked with them.


Leore said...

Hi All, Leore from Plimus here.

I understand that our review process can be frustrating at times, and we are working on better solutions.

For the time being, Manual Review is an essential part of our service and due to the high rate of fraud with electronically delivered products we do require phone verification with certain products. You should know that all your information is kept private; it is only for security purposes.

Muff, just so you know, the funds that were taken out of your PayPal account before the order was confirmed, were only authorization funds for that order. If you had wanted to cancel the order your money would have been returned and you would not have been charged for that order.

Ex-Vendor at Plimus, unfortunately chargebacks are a fact of life online. Plimus has a solid fraud management system in place, which broadly speaking means that we catch people who are intending to defraud you ahead of time - but there's no real way to absolutely avoid chargebacks if you sell products online.

I would also like to share that we are highly focused on maintaining a highly secure platform, but at the same time we are also trying to reduce the impact on the customers and vendors. We've already added an 'instant confirmation' page to the process: customers now can tell what's going on the moment their purchase is closed, even if their email system rejects our notifications. We've expanded the team who speaks directly to customers. We are driving down the number of Manual Review orders through a substantial review and adjustment of the fraud detection rules. I share this because I want to make it clear that we recognize quite clearly that this is a very important issue, and that we are dedicating substantial time and effort to driving a solution that meets your quite reasonable concerns.

If you have any further questions/issues/concerns feel free to email me at

portugal said...

Leore, your fraud management system is either severly lacking, or going for security through such a lengthy process that you must be a legit die-hard customer in order to go through with your purchase. I've made a great deal of purchases online, but I've never come across such a completly unfriendly way of handling things. Also, how is a call supposed to verify a Paypal account? We both know it doesn't, it's just tedious.

In addition to being a customer, I'm also a developer who sells products online, and have made a bit of research before chosing a payment processor. Plimus didn't seem to have any lower chargeback or fraud rate than the rest. Which should tell us that your company is sadly just not competent enough.

I ordered an application through Plimus about 24 hours ago, and I'm still dealing with this bullshit.
Digital products are meant to be delivered at the time of order. 2-3 days delivery is quite simply unacceptable, I will never, ever order through Plimus again. It's just not worth the hassle

Tom said...

Plimus is sucks!
I have never seen so poor ecommerce company NEVER.
Just $5 payment, and I have to wait hours-hours-hours-hours before I get a product.

Buyer Beware!!!

Alberto Fernández said...

Plimus sucks for Vendors too.

This company is holding money - product of my sales and marketing efforts - without a giving me a valid explanation.

I signed for a vendor account with them and started selling an ebook throug their platform.

Everything seemed to be fine, until the time came to recieve my first monthly payment.

They sent me an email with the payment details but they never made the wire transfer to my
bank account.

For the last 5 weeks I have sent more than 21 emails to five different people asking for my
money and all i´ve got each time is a new excuse to delay the payment:

First they told me it was a bank issue and that i would have to pay an investigation fee of U$35 -U$100

Many emails -and weeks -later they told me that Plimus has partnered with a payment processing company that what requesting a valid ID in
order to proceed with my payment...

They woudnt accept my citizen certificate so i was forced to get a passport because it was the only document they will consider.

This condition seemed very strange to me -not so say xenophobic -because i am an affiliate for other companies and i have a Pay pal verified account and my national document was
always sufficient.

Nonetheless, I agreed upon that condition because i was desperately needing my money and
i was promised to get paid once i fulfilled this requirement.

That was a more than a week ago and they still havent process my payment.

Last time i asked, they told me to provide - for a second time - some information about my product and website that I had already
submitted in one of my previous emails.

This suspicious conduct generates lots of questions:

Why didnt they ask me for all this verification requirements when i signed up for my vendor account?

Why did they send me an email with the payment details for a transfer they never did?

Why did they give me different explanations for the cause of the delay?

If someone knows what actions can i take to get my money, pleas let me know.
Alberto F.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely horrendous experience from a buyers perspective. Not only the order form looks like that from the 80s, but it just reeks of paranoid designers.

Also, why in the world wouldn't you let me use my gmail account??? Don't you realize that gmail is primary email for a reason (ie, good service as opposed to plimus).

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Anonymous said...

I wish I knew about this thread before I had the misfortune of ordering two products from an online vendor who uses Plimus. In my opinion, this company (Plimus) exhibits gross incompetence and inefficiency - bullshit is indeed appropriate and far too kind a characterization as well. As I type this, I am entering my FOURTH HOUR of waiting for a "phone call verification" for a $32 online software purchase! What is really pissing me off, is that this is the second purchase I've made from the same online vendor in the last three days, and these two transactions are the only two payments I have made through Plimus. The first purchase was for $35, and it took them an hour to call me. I didn't think they'd pull the same ridiculous verification crap twice, with such a small amount of money, for a purchase from the same vendor they have already verified within the same week. Holding a customer hostage with a 12-hour callback window is absolute BULLSHIT, especially when this process is totally ineffective at preventing fraudulent transactions. And, exactly how is putting a customer through this inefficient, ineffective process for 2 out of 2 transactions "random"? I've already sent a complaint to the online software vendor, and if I can help it, I WILL NEVER purchase another item from an online vendor that uses Plimus as their payment processor. In my opinion Plimus, you suck!

Anonymous said...

I am the author of the previous post, and I just wanted to add for clarification: US resident/citizen, (same) US credit card, (same) US bank, (same) US billing address, (same) US phone number, (same) US computer/IP used for order placement!

Anonymous said...

I'm an ex-vendor of Plimus - I had a site with my product which was selling with Plimus for several years. Then I had to close my business due to some personal life changes, and (GUESS) it now a month after I closed y website and stopped everything, but Plimus regularly processes chargebacks against me and now I have -$300 on my balance. Plimus LOVES to issue chargebacks (despite their completely paranoid verification system) just because they EARN MORE on chargebacks than on sales. With every chargeback they earn $15 regardless of the product price - that is their "processing fee". This company is completely fraudulent.

For Hanneyites said...

Recently tried to buy a Whitesmoke product.
Paid via Paypal thank goodness.
First effort was told the email address I used was not the same as the paypal email address I use.
after 2 days got a refund.
Tried a week later they wanted my telephone number?
The one I had sent they reckoned was none valid ... funny that been using it for 12 years.
Sent my mobile number... same result so I got the refund again from Paypal.
Moral to this story Dont buy anything associated with Plimus... if you do make sure you pay via paypal, then at least you can get your money back.
Hate to think how many sales Whitesmoke lose by using this ridiculous mob.

Admin said...

Beware All buyers

Around 1 month back I had decided to purchase one year anti-spam email subscription from Anonymizer.

But sadly I overlook the sore fact that Plimus was the transaction processor when I opted to buy.

After placing my order I was asked to wait for 12 hours for a manual verification which was quite odd.

I was little suspicious about Plimus because I have never heard about it so I googled it and I was horrified to find all the comments
and negetive feedback people have given.

But what could I have done ..order was already placed.

Almost 24 hours went by no phone call came and another 12 hours later a message came order declined as person was not available on phone. I had given my cell number and I was within network reception all the time and my phone was on.

So I called up Plimus and they declined to comment on why havent
I recieved a call from them within the stipulated time period.

So it was very bizarre why my order was cancelled.

Then I contacted the vendor and explained the situation and they provided me with the option of
paypal. I happily agreed and successfully made the payment and thanks to paypal.

Because of Plimus
many vendors are losing bonafide customers.

Never ever in my life will I buy from a vendor who uses Plimus.
Plimus is absolutely rubbish and

Thanking you,
Dr Sumit Mazumder,
Consultant Psychiatrist

Anonymous said...

Plimus - Epic Fail - e-commerce circa 1984...I totally agree, I've paid twice using paypal and got a refund after I missed the phone call. Made a credit card payment 14+hours ago and no call back! I've written several "epic fail" e-mails to them cc the company they are working for and will never use them again / avoid using any company that uses them.

Anonymous said...

Follow up - I received an e-mail from the actual company apologizing and they accepted a direct pay pal transaction from me and I downloaded and installed my software without a problem. I shall not mention the company (not their fault) but their e-mail did hint that I don't think their too impressed with Plimus. Funny thing I got a long apology letter from Plimus after a few hours, I guess my e-mail to the top guy @ company xyz did the trick.

I'm not in the US and rang Plimus's US branch and got someone their @ around 0730am. They where polite but basically said there system screws things up and there's nothing they could do, basically they advised me to purchase another similar product from somewhere else (exact words were go google it! when I asked where else could I buy the product from if the actual company only used Plimus for their e-commerce). The call I made the night before ended in the person hanging up on me, probably when I said Plimus sucked!

It's taken three days but finally got what I wanted.

Moral to story. If it's Plimus and it fails, try e-mailing the actual company whose item you want to buy's customer support directly explaining you want to spend money but Plimus don't want you too!

Plimus 0 - Customer 1

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Anonymous said...

Plimus? My God does anyone still try to use that useless system.
I tried twice about a year ago to buy
some software which was a downloadable item... never got it, just all the bullshit.
Lucky for me I had used paypal & got all my money back both times.
So I suggest before buying just check you dont have to use this useless system... At times I think I am dreaming to think such a system as Plimus exists.

Nate said...

Dear God, why did I order with them before searching for more info about them? I already practically gave them all the info through Paypal and now they say they need to call me within 12 hours.

Seriously? Don't they at least have an automated system? People, never order with this stupid company again, it's not worth the trouble.

I'll go get a Google Checkout account now and hopefully ask Plimoose to refund my money (I ordered a subscription service, and I wouldn't want to deal with them in the future).

Demmi said...

From reading this page I can see that I've narrowly avoided the worst of the delays and frustration that others have experienced. In my case Plimus did me a favor by cancelling my order because I wouldn't give them my phone number - something that I never give out online for anything.

I'll be purchasing a competitor's product instead.

Numa Quevedo said...

Something like this happened to me 2 days ago. we are a starting company and we had a client who wanted to pay.

After the customer made the payment, 1 day later they sent us an email saying that the purchase was made thru direct link and not thru a website, I was like WTF??? then they said we had to explain more about our company and the products... I was like WTF * 2???? do the client has to explain every single step to this stupid company??? I mean they are not fbi and it was $300 ONLY. What if we had a transaction for more than 5k or 10k??? This company hurst business too because while you are explaining them all this stupid bullshit, days are passing and you are still waiting for your money...


the1observant said...

I've also just discovered how terrible Plimus can be. You must have plenty of patience to do business with them. My patience is finally growing extremely thin. - I've purchased 3 games through them, and so far only 1 of them was able to be delivered properly. I did manage to get a refund for one of them. - I'm currently trying to wait patiently for a working game that I purchased on Dec. 30 2010. It is now Jan. 13 2011 and I STILL don't have a game to show for. First it was a corrupt download file (Plimus mirror, not the developer). Then it was an installation problem (still corrupt). Got all that straightened out, but now there's a product activation problem. It's been 3 days and I'm still waiting for a solution. The only reason why I'm putting up with their bullshit is because I really really want the game, especially since I purchased it at 60% off. One thing is for sure... the next time is see "Plimus" associated with anything I'm doing, I will CANCEL and go somewhere else!!!

Anonymous said...

Oh craps, I should have read this post earlier. Plimus really suxx! Now I am totally stuck. Placed my order for a week, keep complaining my phone number was incorrect, and the payment already deducted. This is really suxx!

Ronald said...

Plimus is fraudulent company. They also intentionally suspend people's account with funds inside to get more $$$. I'm ex-vendor in Plimus and they suspended my account for ridiculous reason. According to them my product is not detail enough.

They set their terms of use page to "noindex" so they can easily change their terms and no-one would know what their terms were and voila, suddenly you're violating their terms and your account frozen with funds in it.

And for your information only, they're not US company although they have postal address in US. If you see, they have different BBB address and whois address. Plimus, why do you want to hide your real address?

Ecommerce web developer said...

Nice blog and also number of good informative comments about Plimus. Thanks for your informative sharing.

Anonymous said...

Plimus is still committing fraud by dragging their feet. On top of the wroupon software that they transact gets ZERO support

Plimus is Slimus for sure, amazing that they still exist since this post was from 2008

Anonymous said...

I purchased a product from a vendor, via Paypal, 15 minutes later I'm told that the email address I've made the purchase from (paypal) doesnt match the one on the account held with the vendor, but to recitify this they (plimus) send an email to the registered email account for me to verify the account which i DO....15 minutes later the transactions refunded and the produce purchase cancelled. I try again by changing my email account with the vendor, make the purchase again and exactly the same happens. Even though I'd done what Plimus request they still reverse the transaction. Consequently it's been 10 days since I first tried to make a purchase and still no product. I wont deal with Plimus again and if that means not making a purchase with my vendor (renewal of a product I've been using and renewing each year for the last 6) then so be it. I've emailed the vendor but as yet heard nothing and Plimus have emailed me a standard ticket for support but they can take a hike, I wont entertain any further correspondence with them. I wonder how many vendors have lost out because of the shoddy system Plimus have in place.

Rachael said...

I am not a customer of Plimus, but an affiliate of Photomatix software, which uses Plimus as their payment processor and affiliate program.

They have HORRID customer service for affiliates too! In the past year I have had to contact them 4 times about important matters.

Each time the problem should have been simple and straightforward. Instead, I repeatedly receive random computer generated responses to my emails that are completely unrelated. When I finally get really angry I will get a response that seems human generated. However, it's usually like one or two sentences long, and doesn't even come close to addressing my original problem fully.

It's like they just scan for a keyword and type something really fast just to get the email out of their face.

It's extremely frustrating to say the least!

If I didn't make money through them I would run far far away!

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chronic pain will often differ from person to person.
For example, a particular medication or injection
for a herniated disc may provide effective pain relief
for some people but not for others.

One problem is that not all patients with similar conditions
develop chronic pain, and it is not understood why some people
will develop
CHRONIC PAIN. Also, a condition that appears
relatively minor can lead to severe chronic pain,
and a serious condition can be barely painful at all.

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